Tuesday, November 21, 2006

Derek Jeter NOT MVP

I can sleep peacefully this offseason!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Nice job, voters! Praise you. I knew you would do the right thing.

Article here. Morneau wins.

Hahahhahhahahhahhahhahaa! Eat that, Jeter. Not the best on paper, not the best in real life, I knew the voters wouldn't listen to that ENTIRELY MADE-UP candidacy.

Comments:
I can't even express how much this makes my day. You know that he's sitting there stewing about not winning it. The irony is that he had a better case for MVP than he did for the Gold Glove, or for the Hank Aaron award. But he didn't deserve this one either.
 
This is the worst selection since Juan Gonzalez in 1998. To put it mildly, Jeter, among more than a few others, was better.

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The irony is that he had a better case for MVP than he did for the Gold Glove, or for the Hank Aaron award.
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Great call.

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But he didn't deserve this one either.
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Well, he was one of the three best players in the league, so if he'd won it, it would have been a fair pick, since there was no clear-cut "best" this year.

I just don't get the Jeter hate.
 
What are you looking to hear?
 
I would have given it to Joe Mauer. Slightly better #'s than Jeter, and the fact that he put them up as a catcher.
 
In what sense? YOu mean where it regards this?

I guess my first reaction wasn't "sweet, Jeter lost!" it was "wow, that's odd they decided to give the league's most valuable player award to a guy who was only the 3rd most valuable player on his own team."

I don't get why it would be a bad thing if Jeter was one of the three best players in the AL and he won the MVP. I mean, the Yankees still lost, either way. That's all I care about.
 
And given the non-stop Jeter media hype we're subjected to, I don't know why you don't get the Jeter hate. He's a grossly-overrated Yankee, and the little snippets of his true personality that we get to see (the way he wouldn't show any public support ARod this summer, the fact that ARod was forced to move to 3B for him to begin with, the cold-shoulder he gave Ken Huckaby when poor Huckaby was trying to apologize to him) when we're not being told how wonderful he is, make me think he deserves it.
 
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make me think he deserves it.
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I don't blame him for getting hyped, obviously, because he doesn't hype himself, nor does he "overrate" himself. I loathe the current sports media, and am more or less indifferent to him.

No one asked Jeter to move, so naturally, he didn't offer. The trope is that it would have been better to have ARod at short, but wouldn't you rather put the weak defender where he's more comfortable, while relying on the stronger one to try and adapt?

The Ken Huckaby story is what, an iffy moment after having his season ended? You're going to hate a guy for that?

I don't know, he just seems like a decent ballplayer taht a bunch of tardfarms have decided to anoint the second coming. I don't get how that's his fault.
 
"wouldn't you rather put the weak defender where he's more comfortable, while relying on the stronger one to try and adapt?"

I'd rather field the strongest overall team defense that I could, and given Jeter's lack of range, but strong arm, that would have meant him movingto 3B and leaving ARod at SS. To be the team player that we're always told that he is. And again, I thought the fact that it was so difficult for him to just come out and say that the fans need to lay off of ARod (in contrast to all the support he showed for Giambi two years prior) was telling.
 
Jeter is of that Jet Set Crowd & quite smug, according to friends of mine, close to The Yankees:

He enjoys a great amount of hype;

But he's not the LEADER he pretends to be.
 
I guess what I'm saying isn't that he's a choirboy- just that he's a good player that I don't understand the hate for. Why is it his responsibility to tell everyone to lay off ARod? Why is it his responsibility to live up to all this hype and garbage people decided to pile on him?

Apparently he and ARod don't like each other. So he didn't go out of his way to stick up for him. Yawn.
 
"Why is it his responsibility to tell everyone to lay off ARod?"

A. He's their Captain, so you could argue that it's his job
B. I believe it actually would have made a difference. ARod is clearly a pretty uptight bundle of neuroses, and I do believe the booing impacted him. Again, if Jeter's such a selfless leader, why was it so tough for him to do this? It very well might have helped, and it certainly wouldn't have hurt.
 
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Again, if Jeter's such a selfless leader, why was it so tough for him to do this?
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You're still confusing the public hype of the guy with who he actually is. So they follow him around and nearly deify him- and he's got to live up to that?

I'm not arguing that he shouldn't have done it. You're right, it may have helped. I'm arguing it's almost totally irrelevant to me, and that whatever it may say about him wouldn't come close to making me jump up and down with glee at his losing the MVP.

So that's your reason for hating him? Because the sports media loves fellatng him and because he wouldn't stck up for ARod?
 
But yet you've come to the jump up and down fest to rain on the parade! I knew this would happen. But I'm not letting it ruin this beautiful day.

My reasons for hating Jeter, besides the same ones AJM mentions have been written about, at length, by me on this blog a million times.
 
And J Christ, man, this is also all about all these Yankee fans and media who still seem to think everything is divinely granted to them, but keep getting shot down over and over in a joyous 6-year (so far) period! This is awesome!
 
"You're still confusing the public hype of the guy with who he actually is."

Well, the true fact of the matter is that the 'public hype' is really all we actually know of any famous athlete. Is it possible that in reality Derek Jeter is a great, salt-of-the-earth guy, while David Ortiz is a massive jerk? I guess. But we'll only know the personas that are out there.

So, I'll abstract it for you...if it really pisses off Michael Kay and Tim McCarver and Murray Chass and Randy Levine that Derek Jeter didn't win an MVP trophy that he was considered a lock for,...well, that makes me happy. Sorry.
 
I guess I just disagree. I see a guy who deserved to win losing to a guy that didn't. Yankee fans reactions either way couldn't possibly mean less to me.

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My reasons for hating Jeter, besides the same ones AJM mentions have been written about, at length, by me on this blog a million times.
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I didn't mean I hadn't heard the reasons a million times from many, many people, I was just mentioning that I don't get it and explaining why I thought most (if not all) of those reasons are really silly.

Also, I guess I assumed at least half the stuff you've said about Jeter was part of the humor portion of the site. Definitely funny- but I didn't take you 100% seriously (ie, the "Cheater" stuff, etc). Should I have?
 
Well I know you've questioned whether I'm serious about it before. But, I don't know, besides when I say Steinbrenner uses weather controlling devices and stuff like that, it's all what I believe. Especially about Jeter.

And you say you've got problems with people hyping him, so why not be happy when they--especially the real assholes--are disappointed?
 
Oh, and someone just made me smile: I got a google search result leading to my page that said "Jeter fake dive into stands"

Nice!
 
"I guess I just disagree. I see a guy who deserved to win losing to a guy that didn't. Yankee fans reactions either way couldn't possibly mean less to me."

Okay, forget Morneau for a minute. If you had a vote, would you have cast it for Jeter over, say, Joe Mauer? I just don't see such a grave injustice here being done to Jeter...I don't think he was most deserving of the candidates, so who cares if he didn't win? Frankly I think he had a much better case in '99.
 
No, actually, I've said a few times here I'd have picked Mauer. I may even have voted for Ortiz over Jeter. But neither was so exponentially better than Jeter that his winning would have really pissed me off too much.

If Jtere had won it in, say, 2004- THEN I'd have been pissed, trust me. But not because it was Jeter.

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But, I don't know, besides when I say Steinbrenner uses weather controlling devices and stuff like that, it's all what I believe. Especially about Jeter.
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Really? Wow.
 
I get it. You think I'm crazy for saying a bunch of stuff about Jeter. But it's just how I feel. I watch him all the time. I didn't just decide to hate him and therefore go invent a bunch of stuff about him. I'm merely giving all the reasons that lead to me hating him. If people are so offended by it, they don't have to read this blog. I'm just happy to write about things that no one else does, whether anyone keeps reading afterwards or not.
 
Hey, I'm not trying to stop you. But just recalling some of your reasons off the top of my head, they always struck me as being jokes, and not serious. Like when you refer to him as "Cheater" and stuff. Do you think he cheats?

I'm not offended at all, he's just a baseball player. Just disagree, I guess.
 
See, now if I said, "Of course he's a cheater, his NAME is practically Cheater," that would be a joke. But I've given plenty of examples where he does indeed cheat. Certain things are part of the game. But considering the player he's made out to be, the guy "you'd want your kids to emulate" and all that crap, you'd think he wouldn't do that stuff at all. But it goes beyond that, like the way he acts on the field. And off. People act like he's perfect. For me, he's the opposite, except that he's a fundamental ballplayer, which is good, but it's what you're supposed to be.
 
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But I've given plenty of examples where he does indeed cheat.
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Dude, I am all ears.

Cheating? Seriously.
 
Um, o-kay...I'm going to step out of this thread now...(tiptoes)
 
I'm all mouths. Just go back and read the old stuff. He cheats.
 
I don't really hate Jeter, but I love making fun of that fat-headed weirdo. Making fun of Jeter is one of my hobbies.

Jeter is more of a caricature of himself than a ballplayer. I'm not interested in his contributions to the game. I don't care if he cheats. I just like ripping on him.
 
Me, too. And the cheating isn't nearly the only thing I hate about him (not hating him as a dude, just as an on and off field Yankee). Again, I've talked at length about all the reasons. For like three years here. But why wouldn't I hate the face of my rival? That's what I don't get.
 
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You're still confusing the public hype of the guy with who he actually is.
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Yes. But ever Saturday game on Fox I have to listen to the public hype of Derek Jeter, and after a while, it really grates on you.

I don't think this is a phenomenon specific to Jeter - there's a guy like that in every sport.
 
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Yes. But ever Saturday game on Fox I have to listen to the public hype of Derek Jeter, and after a while, it really grates on you
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Oh, absolutely. I hate it too. It's ridiculous. It makes no sense, and sometimes I think they're all playing some sort of game trying to top themselves in absurdity.

I just don't blame him for it, really. He's obviously a very, very good player, seems to be a decent guy, contributes a lot to his community, and plays hard. I root real hard for him to fail at every turn, but... "hating" him and making up reasons that he's a "cheater" is just crazy to me. JMHO.
 
I'm not making it up, I watch him every night.
 
Just when I think I’m out, they pull me back in…

“seems to be a decent guy, contributes a lot to his community”

What’s your evidence for this? Because he seems to me to be a spoiled diva, and I cited the Arod/Huckaby examples which you casually dismissed. The Massarotti/Harper book also portrayed him petty, aloof guy who holds a grudge forever, most notably over the Arod Esquire article; I’ve seen the same thing written in a few other places.

My other point: Morneau probably didn’t deserve the award, but I still say if Jeter had won it over Joe Mauer, it would have been just as big an injustice. I’ll just shamelessly steal this from a poster in the SoSH thread that I know you’ve been contributing to, because it sums up most of what I what I think is relevant:

1. Mauer had a higher AVG
2. Mauer had a higher OBP
3. Mauer had a higher SLG
4. Mauer plays a harder position
5. Mauer plays a harder position better than Jeter plays SS
6. Mauer is also a leader on his team - great make-up
7. Mauer's team made the playoffs

I don’t care about the batting average, but putting up a better OPS while playing full time at the most demanding position on the diamond should carry a ton of weight. And one other point which has been mentioned before, but bears repeating: Jeter plays on a $210mm roster of all-stars which cruised to a division title because their only competition spontaneously combusted in August; for all the abuse Arod took this season, his OPS was higher than Jeter’s. Meanwhile, Mauer led the $64mm Twinkies in OPS (just a hair above Morneau, but still). The Yanks still make the postseason without Jeter; the Twinkies, playing in what ended up being a much tougher division, don’t go to the playoffs without Mauer.

The biggest travesty of the MVP vote was not Morneau winning, or Jeter getting only a 6th place vote from Joe Cowley…it was Mauer being left off five ballots entirely.
 
AJM- you make a strong point there. Again, like I said- I'd have picked Mauer. Jeter had better VORP and WARP1 numbers (I hope that doesn't make me too much of a "nerd"), but you're right- esp. w/ defense, as Mauer was one of the best defensive players in baseball, and Jeter... wasn't.

You did reference a few instances where Jeter seems like a bit of an egomaniac. I've seen just as many that make him seem like a real bright, decent guy. Six of one, half dozen of the other. I guess I don't really track these sorts of things too closely, or care either way. To me, he's just a real good baseball player that plays hard. I don't know, your mileage may vary. That's cool. I don't think I'm saying anything too crazy here.

I get hating him, but I don't get not giving him his reality-based due. I guess that's closer to what I was driving at. I'm probably most in line w/ what WCSG mentioned a few posts back.
 
Fair enough, BSM. The funny thing is, I actually don't really care much at all about the MVP award these days....didn't bother me at all when they gave it to ARod over Papi last year (largely because I thought it was a defensible choice). Jeter winning it this year would have been far from the worst selection in history, but I felt the stronger case for Mauer was pretty clear cut, and after watching Jeter win the GG and Aaron Awards undeservedly, and seeing to the Jeter Media Hype Machine rev up over the last couple months, I just really didn't want to see him get the trifecta.

I assume Mourneau ended up winning it because he had the best triple crown stats on a team that made a huge late-season push to a playoff spot. Not great logic, but that's the kind of stuff that usually carries the day with baseball writers.
 

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